Chapter 5: Questions #3-#5

1/24/2013

I wanted to make sure that we adequately reflected upon the following questions. So I am listing them here. In the Comment Section I will place my "answers". You can use the comment section to place your own answers or you can click on reply under mine to reply to my comments..

Is there such a thing as natural death, that is, are all deaths a result of sin? Do all people die because we are sinful?
What do you make of the sidebar on Original Sin? What questions does it answer? Does it raise any other questions?
In the section "Jesus Overcomes Our Greatest Fears" we are presented with the basic sotry of how "our hero" Jesus "overcomes the odds." What is the basic story? Is Jesus an example of a hero who did it "all on his own?" Is the lesson simply that we just all need to be braver humans, especially when facing death?

15 Comments

Jay

1/24/2013 02:20:42 am

1. (Question #3):
We are finite beings. We were created that way and presumably if Adam and Eve had not strayed into Original Sin, they still would have experienced death. However, this death would have been in full acceptance of the will of God who created us—it would in fact be like Christ, the New Adam’s obedience on to death. In other words, a life lived completely and died into eternal life.
Instead, we resist death, we resist other aspects of our finiteness in order to convince ourselves of our own mastery—to become our own God, as it were. And in so doing we fall into the trap mentioned in the Franciscan video. We see our humanity as something that is worthless and needs to be overcome rather than seeing our finiteness as God’s gift to us and as “very good.” Death is not necessarily a result of sin. But approaching it without fear does comes from replacing sin with a reconciled relationship with God.

Carla

1/29/2013 03:32:25 am

I don't believe that all death is a result if sin. Some, such as a drug overdose, are because the person has chosen to live seeking fulfillment in places other than God.

Jay

1/29/2013 04:47:15 am

Something to consider. If we think of sin as making choices that are not life-affirming or in the way that God wishes us to love God and one another, then dying from a drug overdose would be as a result of sin.
In any case, my original comment meant to point out that there is natural death as part of being human and perhaps sin's goal is less the death of a person and more about taking the value and meaning of a person and his/her life and detaching it from a life-fulfilling relationship with God.

Ray

1/30/2013 01:06:58 am

To me natural death is a term that just reflects the end of our life on earth . Though at times we use the terms died of natral causes meaing that the person lived a long life on earth under the human conditions but I do not think everyone dies because of their sins. As long as we are on God's Green earth we will all sin, forgivennes of these sins and acceptace of God's love for us our lives will caary on as our spirt leaves our human bodies.

Jay

1/30/2013 01:50:34 am

The circumstances under which we die though do offer some distinction between "natural" --died of old age, and "other causes"--suicide, or other violent death.
But you do point to the very strong hope that Christian do not believe that death separates us from the love of God--whatever effects sins may bring upon our lives, their quality, and ultimate meaning.

Jay

1/30/2013 01:52:17 am

One other thing you might consider or reflect upon...we have an immortal soul. We have been given a unique body. That body bears with it in this life the effects of our choices, including our tendencies to sin. In the afterlife, there is a reuniting of soul and body--and thus, there is something permanent and unique to our identity about those choices we've made in our lives in the after life.

Jay

1/24/2013 02:22:54 am

2. (Question #4)
The sidebar to me seems very much like so much is either decided by what Adam/Eve have done or what Jesus Christ has done. I wonder how people who have no sense of experiencing what others have done to hand on the life that they have presently (negatively or positively) share that understanding. In short, don’t we live in a society that tells us we can make ourselves different from all others no matter what our origins. “We can make it.” “You can do it.” “It’s all up to you.” How then do they experience the limits of that and how do they embrace God at the end of those limits? It isn't automatically perceived that way.

Carla

1/29/2013 03:35:00 am

I thought the sidebar on Original Sin was helpful. It helped me to realize that Adam and Eve represent us, and we're not necessarily being punished for what they did.

Jay

1/29/2013 04:48:31 am

Good observation. Our handout on Original Sin also made a similar point, not just with the story of Adam and Eve, but the other major stories in Genesis: Cain and Able, Noah and the Flood, Tower of Babel.

Ray

1/30/2013 01:33:06 am

In orgianl sin of Adam and Eve there will always be confusion and I often wonder what life would have been like if they would have listen to God and stayed away from the the forbidden fruit. I agree with Carla that Adam and Eve represent us and we are not be punished because of thier sin.

The old saying if you do not learn from history it will repeat itself. Death is not an abitray punishment because of sin, but death is our second chance to accept God's blessing for our creation and for his love. "God wants us to succeed by accepting his love!!"

Jay

1/30/2013 01:55:00 am

I think I get what you are saying. I would say, death gives finality to a finite being and thus confers a unique identity as well a ultimate meaning upon that being. It is at that point that the Creator can say (hopefully), "Well done, good and faithful servant..." and you can have the ultimate sense of "this is who you are and destined to be."

Jay

1/24/2013 02:26:32 am

3. (Question #5)
It is true that we can look at Jesus as a hero and role model. He shows us that we can face up to our fears of death and now know that death does not have the final say. However, being like Jesus is not just a matter of being braver.

He put his trust in God the Father and was obedient to him. He showed us his unique relationship to the Father as an example of how we should enter into that relationship. And through the Holy Spirit he offered to us adoption into His Body and relationship to God.

I would want you to remember this phrase, especially before we talk about SACRAMENTS in any detail:
“God, the Father accomplishes in Christ, through the power of the Holy Spirit”—this is what happens on the Cross/Resurrection. This is also true of any sacramental moment: The Baptism of Jesus, the DOXOLOGY at Mass: “Through him, with him, and in him…”

Jesus shows us how to worship God, address God, pray to God, be conformed to God, in a whole new way. (This is what makes it Christian…not just this perfunctory sign of the Cross, but the manner in which the Trinity reveals God as loving relationship and draws us into that relationship.)

Carla

1/29/2013 05:44:55 am

The basic story of how Jesus overcomes the odds is that he became fully human without losing his divinity, and triumphed over temptation and sin. Through Resurrection, he overcame death, the ultimate consequence of sin. The lesson is that when facing death, we must not be afraid because it can not separate us from the love of Jesus.

Jay

1/29/2013 06:16:09 am

All of what you say is true, just so long as you see that Jesus did not do this all on his own, but rather the Tri-Une God was with him--the Father who loved him and sent him into the world, the Son who was obedient to the Father, and the Spirit who reconciled God and humanity and made holy this sacrifice.
In other words, a brave human would not have accomplished the same thing, nor would God just "doing it for us" have meant the same thing. St. Paul describes this divinity/humanity relationship this way: Divine in order to be able save us, human so that it would have actual meaning for us.

Ray

1/30/2013 01:56:50 am

There is no better example of a hero than Jesus!!! Jesus is God in his human form. His whole life was to show us the way to love God and to accept him and his love for us.

If you look up the defination of hero the use words like: somebody who commits an act of remarkable bravery or who has shown an admirable quality such as great courage or strength of character and somebody who is admired for outstanding qualities or achievements.
Mythology in classical mythology, a man, especially the son of a god and a mortal, who is famous for possessing some extraordinary gift such as superhuman strength.

The true example of his heroic actions was his life on earth!! Our path to heaven....

Chapter 5: Questions #3-#5

Leave a Reply.

Purpose

Archives

Categories